Contents 1 S-mine 2 Denis Law 3 Nepal 4 Palazzo Pitti 5 Kammerlader 6 TARDIS 7 Husein Gradaščević 8 Flag of Belarus 9 Katamari Damacy 10 Spoo 11 Read my lips: no new taxes 12 Dogpatch USA 13 Marshall Plan 14 Music of Nigeria 15 Lakitu 16 Sun Yat-sen 17 Blade Runner 18 Suburbs of Johannesburg 19 Bhutan 20 Iowa class battleship 21 Ann Arbor, Michigan 22 Black Seminoles 23 History of Alaska 24 Pan American World Airways 25 Thunderball 26 Makuria 27 Formula One 28 KaDee Strickland 29 BBC television drama 30 Swedish allotment system 31 Brihanmumbai Electric Supply and Transport 32 Krag-Petersson 33 Hubble Deep Field 34 Cerebellum 35 Asthma 36 Sociocultural evolution 37 Witold Lutosławski

S-mine

Self Nomination. This article has been under peer review for a while. It has been expanded into a detailed description of one of the most influential landmines in history, featuring historical information, research from period field manuals, and extensive images and a complete overview of the information available. Great images and diagrams as well (one has been nominated as a featured picture).--Primalchaos 05:34, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support—Interesting and well written. Well done! (I'm running through it to tweak the language.) Tony 06:11, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • It would add interest to the pictures if you could state when and where the they were taken in the captions.
    • Unfortunately, almost all the pictures are from old scanned training materials, in which no specific date was given.--Primalchaos 01:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Then add the source in the caption, and not just the image page. - Taxman ^Talk 21:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
    • That would be a break with standard Wiki-style. Image sources are almost universally done only on the image page. Take a look at today's featured article, San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. Not one image is sourced in the caption, just on the image pages.--Primalchaos 01:24, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
  • As well as metric equivalents, please spell out numbers that are less than 10 (unless both categories are paired). Since the subject of the article was a German invention, it would be more logical to give the metric measurement first, with the US equivalent in parentheses.
  • Subsequent comment. Now that I've run through it thoroughly, I'm struck by one aspect of the article—the absence of the human element. It's a cold, technical description of a device that did horrible things to people. Without flinching, as it were, you've pointed out the ways in which it achieved this, as though describing the inside of a photocopy machine. I wonder whether it would be possible to include just a few sentences giving the human, social, and political contexts. For example, you could inform the reader that (1) this device was an early example of a class of weapons that are still killing and maiming people in places such as Cambodia and Afghanistan, (2) later generations of the device are still being produced in the UK and the US, among other countries, as a highly profitable export, and (3) there have been international moves—promoted by the Diana, Princess of Wales, among others—to ban mines, and that these moves have been resisted by powerful interests. Then I'd feel that the article had a heart and soul, and not only explained the S-mine, but put it in a useful context beyond its technical description. Do you think that mentioning all or some of these facts would fatally compromise your objectives in writing the article? Tony 14:18, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Given the current controversial state of landmine treaties, and the fact the moral issue of landmine use was almost never brought up during World War 2 (both sides used them equally), I believed the controversy surrounding landmines was best left to the primary landmine article.--Primalchaos 01:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
    • I still think that at least a general mention of this area should be made in this article, even as a concluding sentence or two. Tony 02:04, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Concluding sentence added.--Primalchaos 02:46, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Thx, that's a little better now. Tony 01:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support Comments:
  • Metric equivalents absent
  • Use the non breaking space   between the number and its unit. 5 inches, 22 mm etc.
  • Are they still in use around the world, or have newer types of mines replaced them?
    • I believe this is addressed in the Imitations section, where several of the mines, such as the OZM mines, are still in use today.--Primalchaos 01:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • ...used the term Bouncing Betty... ---> Bouncing Betty in italics

=Nichalp «Talk»= 06:26, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

• Support with reservations. Since this is indeed the first widely used example of a landmine (am I right in that?), some reference to the contrversy should be made -- if only in a paragraph pointing people to other articles. More formally, I am sure the S-mine would have been mentioned in various pacifist or generally anti-war documents written after the war; these should be included. Sdedeo 23:00, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • In general, the S-mine didn't enter the national or international consciousness until after the war. And landmines were in use for over a hundred years before the introduction of the S-mine, and were widely used during World War 1.--Primalchaos 01:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Hi PC -- sorry, I was mistaken in that! I fully support the article as it stands now, with or without a mention of later controversy. I did a brief check to see if the S-mine is mentioned explicitly in treaties and came up blank. I think it is very well written and excellently diagrammed. Congrats. Sdedeo 02:17, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
• Neutral Object. 1) Appears to lack the depth of research expected from FA's. Two references is just not enough, and there are no inline citations I could see. If some of the external links are high quality and were used as references, they can be formatted as such according to the guidelines at Wikipedia:Cite sources. But even then that is pretty minimal if it really is one of the most influential mines in history. 2) The lead is too short, Wikipedia:Lead section calls for 2-3 paragraphs. The lead doesn't clearly ease us into the subject and summarize all of the most important points of the topic. It could use a summary of how important the mine was and how widespread its use, and what it's influence was. 3) Many short paragraphs break up the prose and cause poor flow. They should be either merged with related material or expanded. I've made some copyedits trying to fix things I saw, so please make sure I haven't made anything worse. - Taxman ^Talk 14:40, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
  • 1) A single landmine is a limited area of study. Research included two period field manuals (German and America), 3 mine history sites and the reference work on the subject of landmines. 2) The lead section was edited down from several paragraphs by a supporter of the FA. Someone needs to make up their mind. 3) Will edit in regards to the short paragraphs (mainly added to appease supporters).
    • Like I mentioned, if those were used and are high quality, format them as references also. 2) Well Tony was wrong there, he should check the Lead section guidelines and look at the FA criteria again and the established FA's. A great lead section summarizes all of the most important facets of a topic, the who, what, when, importance, etc. Now what was there before he started editing was clearly too long too. Again, 2-3 full paragraphs. I don't mean to be harsh, it's just FA's have an established standard, and if anyone told you it would be easy to pass, they misled you. :) - Taxman ^Talk 21:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
      • 1) In-line references added and expanded. 2) I've written an additional 'flow in' paragraph for the lead-in, to give a better overview of the mine and flow better into the rest of the article. 3) Removed/merged/rearranged short paragraphs.--Primalchaos 01:17, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Impressive improvements. And I must state, I was wrong, it wasn't Tony that chopped the lead down too much. In any case the lead is much better formed as is the rest of the article. I'd still like another good mine reference text, but since you have used some primary source documents, that does go a long way. And based on your statments it seems the research for the article included the three mine history sites, so I'm not sure if you're reluctant to place them in the reference section or just haven't gotten to it. There's also a bit too much editorial voice for NPOV sake in "There is no information as to the exact fate of what happened to remaining stockpiles of the mine, but it can be assumed a majority were destroyed...". Do you really know there is no information, or do you assume because you've looked everywhere you know and didn't find it? Try to state more factually with what leads you to believe no information is available, not what your beliefs are. Let the reader decide. Finally it's just too short, leading me to believe it must not be comprehensive, but I certainly don't know anything that is missing, so I could be wrong. But since what is there is very good and I may not be able to respond further, I'll go neutral, which won't keep it from being promoted. - Taxman ^Talk 19:27, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Support. It's nice to see the under-represented field of Nazi Germany and its awesome military arsenal represented on Wikipedia. This particular example has wider relevance, however, because the basic design was highly influential; I believe there are grenades and mortar shells which also use the bounding principle. There's an example here, [1] produced by one of the other countries which Tony1 mentions obliquely above. Perhaps he holds the UK and the USA to a higher standard than other countries, or perhaps he doesn't like to imagine other countries in a negative context.

As for the article itself, rather than the subject, I vote for a weak support. A lot of it is directly unsourced, particularly the section about French soldiers in 1939, which I presume is taken from the external references. As I have mentioned elsewhere, in the FAC on BBC television drama, if the editorial voice is strong and trustworthy I am prepared to go along with the writer, but in this case the writing and grammar is sometimes sloppy, and so it needs reinforcement. I don't picture Max Hastings or Martin Gilbert or Richard Holmes when I read this article, I picture the kind of people who write for websites.

Why Bouncing Betty? Was it a reference to somebody called Betty? A cartoon character, an actress. "The S-mine was no longer produced after the defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945" is clearly the work of an expert on this mine. I would like the person who wrote that line to answer the following questions; did the post-war German armed forces discontinue the mine? Did they actually purge surviving examples from their inventory? Does the German army use these mines today? Clearly the basic design continued. Whoever wrote that sentence presumably is an authority on these mines. Otherwise he or she... he would not have written it. Wikipedia seems to be blessed with hundreds of people who are top experts on weapons, guns and munitions.

On a tangent, and this is probably more for the bounding mines article, but wasn't there a Yugoslavian film from a few years ago about some people trapped in a shell crater by something similar to an S-mine? They couldn't get away because it would detonate and kill them all, and so they had to patch up their differences and hug etc. Oh, ah, Google's result for 'film trapped bouncing mine' reveals it was No Man's Land by Danis Tanovic, [2] which won an Academy Award in 2002. -Ashley Pomeroy 00:12, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

• • As for Bouncing Betty, I did search high and low for some source of this particular, and strangely morbid, piece of slang - both for the article and because I'm an amateur etymologist. There seems to be none to be found, and is simply an example of the vaguely sexual slang found amongst military forces throughout the world. Who the original 'Betty' was could not be said conclusively. As for the remaining stockpiles of S-mines, the military reserves of Germany were gathered and destroyed as part of the terms of surrender. No data explicitly points out the destruction of the S-mine, but one can assume whatever examples were left over were destroyed along with the hundreds of other shells, mines and other ammunition. Those that were not taken back home to be analyzed, of course. And the German army, being a signer to the landmine ban, does not produce or use the S-mine today.

--Primalchaos 00:53, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Support - mostly because I feel the article is definitly FA-worthy, but also because I like reading about weapons =) WegianWarrior 07:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Support Reads like a text book, which is entirely to its credit --PopUpPirate 12:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

object - no mention of the level of civilian casualties caused by the device; no mention of expected / maximum lifetime if left in field / level of mine clearance in Germany after the war. Will go to neutral if convinced that this information can't be recovered. Mozzerati 22:05, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

• Civilian casualties of any sort during World War 2 have long been more a matter of speculation than actual fact, due to poor records kept during the war and records being destroyed. Also, civilian casualties would not have been reported by landmine model. Allied casualties are similarly missing because the Allies did not report a death by type of weapon used, but only by whether the death occured in the course of battle or not. Added section on postwar mine-clearing operations in Europe and expected lifetime.--Primalchaos 00:29, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Denis Law

Self-nom. This article spent the full four weeks on peer review (link) and was on FAC in August (link). It failed for two reasons: not enough votes were cast (2 support, 1 object), and User:Carnildo objected to the images not having fair use rationales. I've added the rationales now so I consider all previous objections to have been dealt with. Please have a look at the article if you've got time. It would be a pity if it failed solely through a lack of votes.

Thanks, CTOAGN 10:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

• Very mild object, the Return home and After football sections should be merged as the first is terribly short. Will support if changed. -- Elisson • Talk 10:37, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Blimey, that was quick. I've merged the two sections now. CTOAGN 10:46, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Support. -- Elisson • Talk 14:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
• Definite support, lots of good information here. Phoenix2 16:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
• my concerns have been addressed, support vote a couple of paragraphs down. Neutral for now - I like the article but I want to read it through a couple more times. Could you please reload the images with the black bands cropped from them? It detracts from overall look of the article. I love the first photo though - the two blokes on the left look like they're ready to snatch the contract out of his hands the moment he signs. Rossrs 16:42, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
  • User:Jiy has got rid of the bands. CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm happy with the image, and I think the article is better off without that second one. I'll wait to see how User:Nichalp's comments are addressed, but I think the article is developing very well. Rossrs 12:36, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I think the only objections left from Nichalp are the references and the right-alignment of the table columns. I'll do the alignment as soon as I find out how (unless someone beats me to it - should only take a few seconds I think?). I don't think the references are a valid objection, but if you disagree let me know. I'd give it a bit more thought if I thought it was a majority opinion (although I'd still find it highly perplexing). CTOAGN 20:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Support I've right aligned the columns. I don't object to the references as you've done them, although I prefer Nichalp's suggestion. Nichalp frequently comments on FAs and as such has an excellent knowledge of what the standard is. Although I agree with his viewpoint, the type of references to be used are not part of policy, and are guidelines only. The referencing style you've used is one of several acceptable formats - not my favourite, but it's a valid choice in my opinion. Rossrs 14:08, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support -- One comment I do have, though, is that "squint" may be a little confusing to American readers--I've never heard "squint" used in the U.S. to refer to the condition indicated in the article you link to. I have no objection to the article's being in British English, but is there a more universally understood term you could use for his condition? Other than that, I cleaned up some of the prose that was a little bit funky. The article is nicely organized and well-researched. As a fan of the sport, I'm glad to see it have another well-written article.Kevin M Marshall 00:33, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't know what term is commonly used for 'squint' outside the UK, but will be happy to put something in a footnote if you let me know what it's called where you live (I like footnotes...). 'Strabismus' might be too formal for a football bio imo. CTOAGN 19:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
    • If I understand what you're describing, I think we'd call it "lazy eye" (if one eye wanders around) or "cross-eyed" (if the eyes both point in) in the U.S. The problem isn't really one of terminology; the problem is that strabismus is so vague and talks about so many things I can't figure out exactly what "squint" means. I'd never heard of the word "strabismus" either, so perhaps I'm just more ignorant than I should be when it comes to eye disorders. But I like to think that if it's a problem for me, it's a problem for a large number of US readers. All that being said, however, it's more of a problem for the strabismus article than for this one. If the average Brit knows exactly what you mean by squint, just leave it as is and let the editors of strabismus fix that page.Kevin M Marshall 01:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Well researched article. In my opinion, it would read a bit better if each footnote were moved to the end of the sentence it occurs in. Pburka 01:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Support The model Wikipedia article. Ruennsheng 02:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I'm genuinely flattered. Glad you like it. CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support Comprehensive and well-researched - well done! Brisvegas 09:06, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Excellent article – I remember doing some clean-up work on it ages ago, right after it was first created. It's grown a fair bit since then! Great piece. Angmering 20:54, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object I might just have ADD, but the article is quite boring for a FA. Very good article if you're interested in that sort of thing, but people want to really see interesting things on FA. Maybe some more pics too. Spawn Man 05:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
  • The objection is unactionable. Mention what needs to be done to 'enhance' it. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:47, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Agree with Nichalp here. Making it interesting to people who aren't interested in the subject is a lot to ask, and isn't in the guidelines. And I'd rather saw off my own legs than add more images. CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Well that's not my fault... Also, we are voting on which articles should be put on the main page, not what we should do to make them better!?! If you all want to vote on what to do to enhance the article, I suggest you move this article to the Peer Review page. As I said, people don't want boring topics on the main page, and I think this is a boring topic. I'm changing my vote to object. (unsigned. added by User:Spawn Man)
  • Your vote is still unactionable. Have you read the guidelines for voting at the top of the page? Objections need to state a specific rationale that can be addressed, otherwise they may be ignored. Your boredom is unfortunate, but it's something only you can deal with. Rossrs 09:44, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object - The images in this article are woeful. Both suffer from pixelation, the second suffers from gross colour distortion and is poorly cropped. I rarely object to articles based on images but these are exceptionally bad images. Cedars 06:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
  • This has been sorted out now. The first has been cleaned up and cropped by User:Jiy (I only wish I'd noticed before I downloaded GIMP and made the same changes myself). The second has been removed, partly because its quality was poor and partly because someone seems to have introduced a new 'one screenshot per article' rule and it came from the same DVD as the first image. If there's still anything that you object to, please let me know. CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
    • The first image is still fairly pixelated. It would be really desirable to get a better quality picture, preferably one of him actually playing football. Cedars 01:29, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I know, and I'd like to. The problem is that all of Law's career took place in the last fifty years, so all the images I'd like to include are copyrighted. I don't know how familiar you are with the rules of fair use/copyrighted images on Wikipedia but they really make life difficult for subjects where a copyright-free image is unavailable. Knowing this, I originally submitted this article as a featured-article-without-pictures (see /archive1) but PopUpPirate objected because he felt the article would really benefit from a picture (and I agree with him). If I upload anything here that even might be less than 100% ok, it will be objected to and that objection will be upheld. IIRC, at one stage recently something like half of FACs were being rejected on this basis. Promotional images are at best a grey area - there are people trying to get them removed from Wikipedia altoghether (this possibly includes Jimbo, although I can't remember off the top of my head), and even when a copyright holder gives their permission for an article to be used on WP, this is still not enough (whether someone's trying to get the article featured or not) - someone will remove the image as all mirrors need to be able to reuse the images for any purpose. Given that, the only copyright-acceptable images I've been able to find of Law's career have been screenshots uploaded under fair use. There is now a one-screenshot-per-article limit on WP, and I think the one image we need above all is one with Law's face in it from some point in his playing career. I don't have access to television archives so this one is the only one available (and as you can see, it's black and white footage from the early 60s). I might be able to tidy it up with GIMP (although I'm no expert with this - anyone else think they could have a go?) but can't promise I'll be able to make it any better. In any case, while I accept it's not perfect, and I'll happily upload a better image if I can find one with an acceptable copyright status, I really don't think it's so bad that it spoils the article to the point of turning it from featurable to not featurable, now that jiy has tidied it up, especially given Rossrs' comment above. CTOAGN 20:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object – 1) Sections such as ==Growing up==; ==World Cup 1974== are too short. 2) The equiv of £115,000 in today's terms value should be mentioned. 3) Parents names? 4) He was an avid Aberdeen supporter, and would go and watch them when he had enough money to do so, watching local non-league teams when he didn't this is not in the encyclopedic tone. 5) Internazionale, not introduced. Mention who or what the linked terms are about: eg Italian club Torino 6) Goal image is terrible. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:45, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
  • 1) Sections such as ==Growing up==; ==World Cup 1974== are too short.
    • I disagree. His childhood wasn't notable and putting more about it would unbalance the article IMO. The 1974 World Cup was two weeks of Law's eighteen year career during which he played in one match, which as World Cup matches go wasn't that notable. Please conver
  • 2) The equiv of £115,000 in today's terms value should be mentioned.
    • Good idea. Done.
  • 3) Parents names?
    • Didn't seem relevant to me, but I had a look through the FA log and noticed the last featured bio had them, so I've put them in.
  • 4) He was an avid Aberdeen supporter, and would go and watch them when he had enough money to do so, watching local non-league teams when he didn't this is not in the encyclopedic tone.
    • Didn't look that bad (I know I've seen worse in recent FAs), but I've reworded it.
  • 5) Internazionale, not introduced. Mention who or what the linked terms are about: eg Italian club Torino
    • Internazionale is one of the most notable football clubs in the world. The article points out that he's in Italy at that time, and IMO it would be superflous to put something like 'the Italian club Internazionale', a bit like writing 'the English club Manchester United'. People can always click the link if they want to know more.
  • 6) Goal image is terrible.
    • I've removed it, for the reasons given in my response to Cedars' objection above.
  • CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
    • 1) The sections should be balanced, I look for a minimum of two paragraphs and so is currently unbalanced. I'm sure another paragraph could be added on his first 14 years, more about his schooling, family etc. The =world cup= and =after football= can be merged into a single heading =later career=, or something like that. Its currently too short. 2) I'd prefer if you could add the equivalents of £55,000, £110,000 and £115,000 in the text alongside instead of using footnotes. 3) Internazionale is one of the most notable football clubs... that may be true, but don't expect everyone to know that it is notable. We have a wide audience, and some may not have heard of the group. I don't think its too taxing to prefix 'Italian club etc before it? The use dependes on the context. He joined MU would directly imply that ManU is a club, but the wording here: Internazionale tried to... is ambigious. Internazionale could very well be the controlling body of Italian football. 4) Could you right-align the table in the and move it higher up in the text? It seems lost down there. 5) Please convert all those ibid notes (4-24) to {{inote}}? They aren't useful and are highly distracting. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
    • 1) The sections should be balanced, I look for a minimum of two paragraphs and so is currently unbalanced. I'm sure another paragraph could be added on his first 14 years, more about his schooling, family etc. The =world cup= and =after football= can be merged into a single heading =later career=, or something like that. Its currently too short.
      • Merging it that way would be illogical, so I've merged =World Cup 1974= with =Back to Manchester City= instead. I think there's as much info on his childhood as there needs to be - it wasn't notable at all - but could have another look in his bios and see if there's anything I can add. Do you know of a link to anything saying what the minimum size for a section should be or how many paragraphs should be in one? I've looked but haven't been able to find one.
      • I found something to add, so the section's now a little longer and — wait for it — in two paragraphs! How good is that?
    • 2) I'd prefer if you could add the equivalents of £55,000, £110,000 and £115,000 in the text alongside instead of using footnotes.
      • Can't agree with this. It would make the sentences too clunky, and with this being in the introduction, that's a real no-no. I've added the values for £55k and £110k in footnotes though.
    • 3) Internazionale is one of the most notable football clubs... that may be true, but don't expect everyone to know that it is notable. We have a wide audience, and some may not have heard of the group. I don't think its too taxing to prefix 'Italian club etc before it? The use dependes on the context. He joined MU would directly imply that ManU is a club, but the wording here: Internazionale tried to... is ambigious. Internazionale could very well be the controlling body of Italian football.
      • I've put something in along these lines.
    • 4) Could you right-align the table in the and move it higher up in the text? It seems lost down there.
      • Good idea about right-aligning the figures, but I don't know how to do it. If you or anyone else reading this would like to make the change, please do. (done! Rossrs 14:08, 29 September 2005 (UTC)) Where would you rather the table went? Above the Career Summary? I don't think that would improve anything. It definitely doesn't belong in the body of the article text.
    • 5) Please convert all those ibid notes (4-24) to {{inote}}? They aren't useful and are highly distracting.
      • No, I don't know of any requirement to do this and believe it would spoil the article rather than improve it. It's well known that a lot of people don't trust Wikipedia articles because they can be edited by anyone and you don't know where they got their information (or even if they just made it up themselves.) Citing sources properly goes a long way towards meeting this objection, and I think we'd really benefit if a lot more articles were had their sources shown in this way. Inotes are only useful to people who hit the edit button - people who are reading a 'mirror' of Wikipedia won't be able to see them and lot of people on Wikipedia won't know that they're there. See Template talk:Inote#Reasons not to use inote. While the number of citations in this article is somewhat high, I've tried to keep them to less well-known or more contentious facts. So "Denis Law scored in the 1963 cup final" isn't cited because it's easy to look up and few people would question it, while "Liverpool wanted to sign him but couldn't afford to" is, for the opposite reasons. It's also worth noting jiy's comment below.
      • Should point out that I'll be offline for the next 24 hours so there might be a delay before I reply. CTOAGN 19:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Object. Nichalp has good reasons to question the reference style. The requirement is the "appropriate use of inline citations" as per our FAC criteria. Using "Ibid" to refer to the same obvious source over and over in an online article is not making the article that much more verifiable; it's just adding a lot of fairly pointless footnotes for very obvious facts. Just look at notes 4, 7, 9-10, 12 and 17-27 (28-30 are so easily verified that I question using more than one source or even any source at all) and to a lesser extent 13, 16, 18. They all refer to quotes that aren't even full sentences or things like Law being refered to as the King which is going to be disputed by no one except people who are too sloppy to actually check out even the most basic of references before demanding footnotes. You don't need to refer to specific pages in a written source just to make people believe that someone used a rather bland experession like "very disappointed", for example. Footnotes are intended for comments that don't fit in the prose or to refer to complex or highly disputed facts, not just quote snippets and minor factoids. Otherwise they become mere eyecandy that needlessly disrupt the flow of the text. The reference section also isn't complete, since only two of the written sources are actually listed there. Also, several sections consist of almost only single-sentence paragraphs which is not an appropriate style of prose for any article. / Peter ^Isotalo 12:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
      • A suggestion - I think Nichalp makes valid points, but I don't think adding another paragraph about Law's childhood necessarily adds to the article. The short paragraph "Growing up" is a bit too brief. The other way you could deal with this, is to merge the "Growing up" and "Huddersfield Town" sections into one, such as "Early years" (I don't think it's the best title but I can't think of anything better). That way his early life is wrapped up in 3 paragraphs, the reader is taken to the beginning of his career without really going into it, and at this point he's still only 18 years old. That would make the article look a lot better if you can't significantly add to discussion of his childhood. Perhaps you could also merge the short paragraphs towards the end of the article "World Cup 1974" etc, into a larger section. Rossrs 12:36, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Merging the first two sections doesn't make sense to me as there's no obvious reason why the two subjects belong in a single section. He's 22 and an international footballer at the end of the Huddersfield section. I could move the first paragraph of Huddersfield into Early years, but then Nichalp would complain that Huddersfield was too short. I took your point about merging the world cup in with his last season at city - not sure it was necessary but if both of you think so then you've probably got a point. Anything else you think I could add? Should point out that I'll be offline for the next 24 hours so there might be a delay before I reply. CTOAGN 19:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
          • The first section is now a little longer. Does that seem ok? CTOAGN 20:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • The expansion looks ok, but I still would prefer the inotes. Use of inotes does not mean that it is less referenced. See the Economy of India, where we've made good use of inotes and refs together. =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support Great work - nice job sorting all the image palaver out too!!! --PopUpPirate 19:28, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Mild object On reflection, the colour screencap of his goal for Man City is beneath the quality a FAC should have. A better-quality version (i.e. > 256 colours), correctly cropped, is needed. Qwghlm 20:15, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Sorted. See above. CTOAGN 21:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
    • In light of the above, change my vote to Support Qwghlm 23:15, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support Nicely referenced. —jiy (talk) 22:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object

1. One sentence paragraph in intro
2. Growing up Sentences short - and section is in whole quite short as compared to rest of articletoo. Either make a good-size paragraph or expand the current ones (actually on second look it doesn't look that bad)
3. Paragraphs in general are quite short (does not effect objection, just a comment)
4. No external links (will not affect objection)

Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 23:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

• Strong Support Just an excellent overall article Kingfisherswift 14:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Nepal

Self nom – worked on it recently. Copyedited by Tony, and reviewed by Saroj. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:56, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

• Nominate and support =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object. The image Image:Nepalese Maoists.jpg is probably copyrighted, as the original source indicates both a photographer and an organization, and that organization is not a US government agency. --Carnildo 21:01, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

  Ok, I'll email the Panos site. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:51, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

  I've emailed the site, and removed the image from the Nepal page till I get confirmation (or denial) for its use. =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:03, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

• Neutral. I'm concerned that too much information is included in the main article, and not enough in the breakout articles. For instance, the History of Nepal article has no information about the history of the country prior to 400, while the Nepal article provides a fairly detailed history to around 1000 BCE. A reader looking for more in-depth information would be disappointed to find that the breakout article is less informative than the main article. Pburka 01:53, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I've summarised the history and dumped the older version there. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:32, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

That's a good point, and needs to be addressed, but I think I'm right in assuming that daughter articles are outside the criteria that apply here. Thx. Tony 06:37, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. No, contents of linked articles should not pull down the article on display here. The vote is for this particular article, not others. In the past there have been objections to red links in the article etc., but that has been shot down. While you do have a valid point, that can be easily mitigated by copying the contents from the main article to the sub articles. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:04, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• Strong support. This is a good article on a wonderful country, good job done! Ruennsheng 08:25, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Neat effort. Pamri • Talk 05:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Since I collaborated in this rewrite, my vote probably shouldn't count; all the same, I support the nomination. Tony 09:14, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Well written. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 12:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. My comment is only about the section history. I think it is too detailed on some part of history and simply zero for some others. This seems to reflect some POV. The article jump from 1482 to "after decades" to mid-18th century. It is a big hole indeed. On the other hand many royalties and not so important characters appear like "king Jayasthitimalla" for example. Such characters should not appear in such an article except if they are world known like Gandhi or Napoleon. The same remark about historical fact, dates and battles like Kot Massacre or Sepoy Rebellion in 1857. About the 20th century, it seems more or less nothing happened in Nepal from 1950 to 1996. The comments on the events of 2005 should be put in politics section: they are current events! I personaly think the history section should be divided in subsections which would help the reader very much for example in order to recognize which are the major eras in the Nepali history and which ones are interesting to her. Not everybody is interested in prehistory. All in all the history section is far to detailed and not enough structured to be easily read by someone with few knowledge on Nepal Vb 08:57, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Vb thank you for your comments:

• No, I would prefer not to fragment the history by adding subsections.
• I'll summarise the history section.
• Note: Between 1959 and 1990 nothing really notable occured. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Summary complete. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:32, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Now the history section is much more readable. However some points are still unclear to me and I think they should be addressed. It is not clear whether Nepal was a region, a nation or a state in history. It is not clear when one began to speak about Nepal and the Nepalese and how. In particular, in the sentence

By 250 BCE, Nepal came under the influence of the Mauryan empire in northern India, and later became a puppet state under the Gupta Dynasty in the fourth century CE

It is not clear whether Nepal was then a politically united region. Was it some kind of federation? Confederation? Did this unification appear after military invasion? Civil uprising? Or just simply by inheritance? In the whole paragraph following the above mentioned sentence, it is not clear who ruled the country and even whether the country existed (as a province, a region, a nation?) For instance:

The Licchavi dynasty went into decline in the late eighth century and was followed by a Newari era, from 879, although the extent of their control over the entire country is uncertain.

The entire country? The country as it is now? Maybe here an historical map of the country would be helpful. Vb 09:07, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional comments. No, my sources (www.loc.gov) just say that a "certain ruler of Nepal was supposed to have paid taxes to Samudragupta". The encarta site has a map which indicates that the region was under Gupta influence. I've made some cosmetic changes to the text though. Its hard to say the extent of Nepal in those days; and as mentioned in the lead, Nepal went through centuries of Balkanization.

Nepal, as a cohesive and modern nation came about in 1768. I've added a line on that. =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Maybe one should be more detailed on this point. How did Prithvi Narayan Shah manage to unify the country? After years of war? After a peaceful agreement? If this event lead to the modern nation of Nepal, I think this could be more discussed. It seems to be very difficult to find sources about Nepal before this date. I think this should be said and references should be provided. One could begin the first paragraph by a sentence like Not much is known about the area corresponding to the modern Nepal before... Moreover the sentence In 1846, a plot to overthrow Jang Bahadur, a fast-rising military leader by the queen led to several hundred princes and chieftains executed after an armed clash between military personnel and administrators loyal to the queen. is a bit too complicated for me: Who executed who? It is difficult to understand this from this sentence. From the sentences The Treaty of Sugauli was signed ceding parts of the Terrai and Sikkim to the British in exchange for Nepalese autonomy. and In 1923 the Britain and Nepal formally signed an agreement of friendship, in which Nepal's independence was recognised by the British. I have some difficulty to understand how far was Nepal autonomous from the British empire. From a first reading I thought Nepal has been independent since 1816 but the second sentence seems to contradict this. Vb 13:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

• Another important point, the sentence In 2005, Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba resigned and King Gyanendra dissolved the parliament, declared martial law and restricted the freedom of the press. is misleading. From this I had the feeling the king dissolved the parlament as can often be the case in constitutional monarchies. Surfing a bit on internet taught me the Prime Minister is now in prison and some analysts believe the king is trying to re-install an absolute monarchy. I think one should put already those facts in the head. Vb 13:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
• I have had a look at the culture section and was surprised not to find anything about literature. I thought maybe there is no author in Nepal. Surfing a bit told me the opposite: Bairagi Kainla and Daulat Bikram Bista seem to be well-known authors and I guess they are not the only ones. In the same register I looked for modern nepalese painters and found many. This article should at least provide an overview of artistic production in Nepal. Vb 14:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Reply to your latest posts:
  • Expanded info on the making of Nepal in 1768
  • Not much is known about the area corresponding to the modern Nepal before... actually information is known, but the extent is unclear. The sources do not say if the information strictly pertains to the current boundaries of Nepal or not.
  • I've simplified the Kot Massacre sentence.
  • 1816 & 1923. Well in 1816, it was the British East India Company that signed the treaty. The treaty spelled the following: "cede Sikkim; pay us for the damages caused, lets be friends now and not attack each other, keep a British resident". The 1923 agreement was different. It was essentially by the United Kingdom (the UK took over the role of the EIC in 1857) and in a nutshell: "thanks for great help in supporting us through WW1, we now recognise u as an independent nation." Note this recognition was not extended to other kingdoms which made up 40% of India in 1947 which were mostly regarded as subjugate kingdoms of the British Empire. I've made some changes to the text.
  • In 2005, Prime Minister Sher No, the king plans to restore democracy, this was declared a two days back. I've added some info in the =History= and =Government=.
  • I know there's hardly anything on literature, I too found some names but can't gauge the importance of these authors since none of them have won any international awards AFAIK. I would prefer including well known works. I've emailed Saroj (see nom above) to ascertain if there are any novelists worth adding here. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Well I think you did a good job and you have addressed correctly most of my comments. However I am a bit surprised the article is already featured before our discussion is finished. Nevertheless I think the article is still in need for improvements. From my point of view this article needs review from people knowing the culture of Nepal better. I think the points you list provide the impression that the country's culture is mostly traditional and folkoristic what seems to be untrue from a rapid google. No modern painter, writer or musician is listed (it is told about pop music but no artist or movement is listed). Your point about the kings's declaration is not really an argument. There are so many dictators promising free elections around the globe! The article gives the impression the constitutional monarchy declared in 1990 will be there forever. Articles on the BBC site seem to underline this is not an utterly NPOV. In the head it is written the insurgents, who now control about seventy percent of the country. Which 70%? What is still the effective power of the king/government? Vb 07:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Great article that is well written. -- Hottentot
• Support. One slight comment, however.

Nepal has the distinction of being the world's only Hindu state, with over eighty percent of the people following this faith.

Shouldn't "state" perhaps be "kingdom" as India also has >80% Hindus, or is Hinduism Nepal's "state" religion? Sortan 15:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Hinduism is the state religion. Added a line in demographics. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Vb, let's continue this discussion on the Talk page for Nepal. With respect to literature, it's not easy to determine who is worth mentioning—many (most?) country articles don't attempt this. Tony 12:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Palazzo Pitti

This is not a complete self nom. A very good article on the subject by Jnc provided an excellent foundation for the page in its present form. Palazzo Pitti is one of Florence's principal art galleries and buildings. As a palazzo it has witnessed a sizeable chunk of Italian history. Its separate galleries and museums could each be a Featured article in themselves. Hence the page is more descriptive of the Palazzo as a complex rather than dwelling on any one important artefact in its contents. Bishonen has kindly corrected my English, and tidied up the writing and grammar. Giano | talk 12:24, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support. A top class article from three of our finest. Filiocht | The kettle's on 12:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. It's a beautiful article. Comment: inconsistent use of 'The' in some titles; you might consider removing it in all titles. Tony 13:29, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support - Bravo! I have just lightly copyedited (inter alia - before seeing Tony1's comment - removing most of the "The"s, but I think "The Medici" and "The Palazzo today" both still deserve one). The lead could also perhaps do with the teensiest of expansion, but I'm not sure which elements to pick out. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Additional commment: should it be Pitti Palace rather than Palazzo Pitti? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:03, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• Palazzo Pitti, Pitti Palace both are technically correct, I say Palazzo Pitti because that's how I think of it. However landmarks in Florence do tend (for some reason to retain their Italian name for example the Ponte Vecchio, is never called the "Old Bridge". where as in Venice one has the Rialto Bridge and Doge's Palace, but conversely Ca' Rezzonico - never the Rezzonico Palace. I don't know the reasoning, but to my ears Pitti Palace sounds like a casino in Las Vegas, so or these reasons, I've used the Florentine name. Giano | talk 18:24, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• Additional comments: Quick, put some references in before anyone notices that they're missing. Can you make the spaces between sentences consistently one, not a mixture of one and two? It will need a bit of a run through for minor clean ups. I presume that you've checked the copyright status of the images. I'd reduce the colour saturation on the first one—it's kind of ... pink. Tony 13:39, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for the votes of support. I assumed the photograph is supposed to be pink. It is at least a hundred years old, quite possible more. so is in fact a genuine "rose tinted" photo. The palazzo has pinkish reddish stone, so I expect the hand tinter (if that's what they are called) was trying to express that effect with a sunset. I used that one in the lead, as (IMO) it is not the world's most beautiful building, and needed a little rose-tint, the last picture tells the unadulterated truth. Anyway no problem rose, pink whatever it looks fine to me whatever you've done to it. I'm unsure about the comment on references. There is a reference section. Giano | talk 18:27, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• • But it has three print references. And doesn't Wiki software ignore repeated whitespace (except two newlines)? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:05, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Ah, I hadn't realised the space thing. More references needed, I think, without going overboard. Tony 23:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

• I've moved two of the external links to references as they support the article and did provide some information to the article. I can't manufacture any further proper written references, because the three I have listed are the one's I used. In a noncontroversial subject, like this on an historic building, books tend to differ only on how in depth they take the subject, or in their illustrations (most of which are always copyright). Facts and dates tend to stay constant. I prefer to use written books as they in turn provide their own references and sources, whereas an internet site often does not, or can disappear over night. As far as references go, that's as far as I can go. Giano | talk 07:12, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree that non-controversial history doesn't require inline citation, but the few value judgements in the article would benefit from it, or better direct quotes, rather than the 'some experts say' style. --zippedmartin 20:49, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support: It's fine. RENTASTRAWBERRY ^{FOR LET?} röck 01:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support, lovely page, and a masterful summary of much material. Disclosure: I merely did a superficial copyedit. Bishonen | talk 11:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Support: Good balance of graphics and text; definitely an FA. Brisvegas 08:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support a very pleasing article. A couple of picky comments, but nothing substantial. I find the use of "today" in an encyclopedia article a bit vague - or is that only me? - eg change the modern photo's caption to "The palazzo in 2005…" - I've done this. In fact, the whole section The Palazzo today could be recast - the title isn't relevant to the section's first paragraph which is about its timeless architectural merit, and the second paragraph might fit better under Palazzo Pitti galleries, subtitle Administration. The modern photo is attractive, but would it be improved by cropping out the foreground railing? The positioning of images in the sections Early history and The Medici seems to me not ideal, although I can't work out how it could be improved. No reason not to support, though. --RobertG ♬ talk 13:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for the support. I delayed coming back on your points, in order to have a think, but while I see where you are coming from, to be honest I don't know the answers. "Palazzo Today", or "Palazzo 2005" - do we update it after Christmas to 2006? Basically when writing an article like this until the last minute I always call the final section "conclusion" but people don't like that on FA - so what does one call "summing up" - I don't know. I don't like the sub-section idea of "Administration". I think by putting all the present day admin. stuff in the "conclusion" it drags the whole page up to present and thus the end. Regarding placing of pictures, I don't know how to do them properly, I just shove them in and hope for the best, so I am always delighted when someone like SimonP comes along and does them properly, I think he's done a good job, and I am very hesitant to start playing about with them - a bit like touching one's own plumbing! Regarding the final picture being edited - besides the fact I don't know how, as the first is obviously "rose tinted" perhaps it's best if the last is "warts and all". Thanks for the support Giano | talk 20:58, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object One sentence paragraph in Palazzo Pitti galleries - fix this and I'll withdraw my objection. Another thing (although will not effect objection) is that there are a lot of sections/subsections with only one paragraph.... consider expanding or combining. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 23:19, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

• It now contains three sentences and a link to an exiting new page. The subsections of one paragraph, I did think long and hard about; at one stage I had all the museums and galleries in one section. However, my final reasoning (rightly or wrongly) was that as an individual section standing alone they were more likely to be, and more easily, expanded. Either by me or hopefully some-one else. It may be that one day each can stand alone as a sub-page, this is certainly the case with the Palatine Gallery. Hope this convinces you to change you're vote. Giano | talk 09:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Excellent! Thank you! Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 17:48, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Kammerlader

Another self-nom. One of the first, if not the first, breach loading rifles to see widespread service in an armed force. I do believe that this is one of the most comprehensive articles avilable on the subject of these interesting weapons. Peer reviews at Wikipedia:Peer review/Kammerlader/archive1 and Wikipedia:Peer review/Kammerlader/archive2. I've attempted to fix all the issues that cropped up in the peer reviews, but are happy for any suggestions on how to improve the article further. All images in the article at this point has been taken by me. WegianWarrior 12:44, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object. Reading through the article shows one critical piece of information is missing: what rate of fire could the average soldier manage with one of these rifles? --Carnildo 18:34, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I've not written anything about that simply because no reference could be found apart from the rate of fire being higher than with a muzzleloading musket. I could (and have in my notes) make a guestimate, but it would probaly not be accurate, and it would be original research. WegianWarrior 09:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Odd. I'd think that for a gun where the selling point is a higher fire rate, the rate of fire would be well-advertised. Are there similar guns this could be conmpared to? Is there a normal rate of fire for breechloading guns using paper cartridges? --Carnildo 18:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

In this day and age it would be widely advertised I'm sure - however, in the 1840's, it was probaly considered a state secret (and a nasty surprice for an attacker). Anotehr early military breach loader was the german Needle gun, which according to the source given for it's article had a rate of fire of "ten or twelve times in a minute;[3]". However, the kammerlader has a more labourious loading process, so it can't be that quick. My guestimate is between 6 and 8, but I can't find anything to back this up neither online or in the books avilable to me. I'll rack my brain to see if I can't come up with a way to put words on the article on the rate of fire. WegianWarrior 06:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

If you can find rate-of-fire information on similar rifles, then a sentence such as "The rate of fire of the Kammerlader is unknown, but the contemporary Needle gun, which used a simpler loading mechanism, could be fired 10-12 times per minute, while the..." --Carnildo 19:54, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I've added words to that effect - which hasn't stopped me from looking for more hard info. WegianWarrior 07:38, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Support. Current wording looks good. --Carnildo 18:12, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support—Excellent article, and the Norwegian man who appears to be the main contributor has very good English; I'm impressed. Tony 14:40, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:31, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support Ruennsheng 08:54, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

TARDIS

Kind-of-self-nom. Been working on this and other Doctor Who articles for over a year with other editors from the Doctor Who WikiProject. Both Doctor Who and Dalek have made FA status, and I think TARDIS has enough "real world" connections and impact to do the same. This has been through peer review once, and comments there were addressed. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

• I'll support--from the perspective of someone who knows little about Doctor Who, this is well-written and appears comprehensive. Meelar (talk) 19:46, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Very complete as far as I can determine, but didn't the doctor's niece/first companion claim they invented the name TARDIS? I couldn't find any mention of her in the article. Also, I think the lead could be a little larger. - Mgm|^(talk) 21:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment. Susan Foreman, the First Doctor's (and all the subsequent ones too, of course) granddaughter said as much in the fist serial 100,000 BC -check the last sentence before The Doctor's TARDIS section and footnote 3. Sean 01:08, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object—Needs thorough copy editing. Here's a sentence taken at random from the opening:

'It is larger on the inside than it appears from outside due to the TARDIS occupying multidimensional space.'

Four problems: better as 'Because the Tardis occupies multidimensional space, it is significantly larger on the inside than the outside.' Or you might extend it thus: '... than the outside; not surprisingly, this typically results in a shocked disbelief on the part of those who step inside for the first time.'

Call it a 'time machine', not a 'time travelling machine', and lose the upper-case, which shouts out at the reader. The copyright justification for the first image should say 'I believe' rather than 'It is believed'. It's your assertion. Tony 14:20, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

The sentence has been rephrased. A further note as to the reaction of people has been added in a later section. I am keeping TARDIS in all caps because that's the proper form. The copyright justification is boilerplate, so it won't be changed, either. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:27, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support JDH Owens ^{talk | Esperanza}] 19:57, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Angmering 21:00, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Ruennsheng 09:00 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support - looks good enough to me, although I'm not sure why there is a {{spoiler}} at in section 4, "Other TARDISes". Having read through, I think the "needs copyediting" objection needs to be a bit more specific to be actionable. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:02, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I believe it was placed there because the paragraphs immediately following reveal plot points about the stories (as opposed to generic information about the TARDIS) discussed. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 05:02, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Husein Gradaščević

Self-nom. By far the most comprehensive biography of Husein Gradaščević on the internet in either language. Live Forever 01:22, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support - Interesting article --Dado 00:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object
  1. The image Image:Gradascevic2.PNG is claimed as "public domain". However, it's a postage stamp from 1995, so unless Bosnian and Herzegovinian postage stamps are not subject to copyright, it's not in the public domain.
  2. The image Image:Gradacac.JPG is claimed as "fair use". However, since it's quite possible for a Wikipedian with a camera to make a replacement, it can't be used here under "fair use".

  --Carnildo 02:21, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I removed the first image. About the second image, what about it being used for informational purposes? Live Forever 02:49, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

It could possibly be considered "fair use" under the law. But under Wikipedia rules, "fair use" images can only be used when it's impossible to get anything else. --Carnildo 03:51, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Very well. I've removed both of the above mentioned images. Live Forever 06:05, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support, there may be some nationalist POV (although I don't know the subject so I can't really say), but it is well-written, seems complete, and the English is good. Everyking 04:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support; This is really an interesting article about a Bosniak general, an Europian and a muslim from Bosnia. The European history is well known in general, but some parts about the Balkans, expecially Bosnia and Herzegovina are not. People should introduce some historical figures, generals and leaders, that belong to Europe, but were ignored for a long time.Emir Arven 00:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

• Minor Object: Seems to bland. RENTASTRAWBERRY ^{FOR LET?} röck 23:01, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • So what needs to be fixed? --Carnildo 23:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't think this is a fair objection. Live Forever 04:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
  • In my opinion I think a featured article should be something that a normal person visiting this website would want to spend 30 minutes or whatever out of their lives and take the time to actually read the article. I just feel that this wouldn't happen if this article were on the front page or featured. It has good content and all but that is just the way I feel. RENTASTRAWBERRY ^{FOR LET?} röck 22:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object, once again an intersting topic, but it needs a good copyedit. The phrasing is odd. tense changes where it shouldn't and there are too many commas, here are a few examples picked at random:

An impressive statue and monument are also expected to be built in Gradačac in the near future, and talk of the possible return of Gradaščević's remains to his homeland has come up again, though significant progress has yet to come of it.

Due to historical differences between the Bašagić and Gradaščević families, however, Safvet-beg's view of Husein-kapetan is somewhat opinionated, in line with his family's view.

--nixie 00:56, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I've made some changes; what do you think now? I think this article is essentially a featured article except for some minor grammatical errors like you pointed out. It would be a sahme if it failed to make it just because of something that could be easily resolved with a few minutes worth of editing. Live Forever 20:36, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I've been through the text too, bt I think it could use another once over by someone else.--nixie 01:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Dado has just done another copyedit on the article. He found some minor mistakes and fixed them. Live Forever 04:27, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• One full date needs wikifying for the auto-format function to work, and a few are half-wikified. Please spell out numbers less than 10. Some paragraphing is itty-bitty, thus weakening the flow. 'However,' normally at the start of a sentence or clause. It's not 'compelling, even brilliant' prose yet, although not the worst I've seen in this room. Tony 09:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• I've had english speaking professional editor proof read the article who found it to be good enough quality to be featured even for newspapers. I see no reason for futher objections --Dado 15:27, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support - Its use of English is okay. --Ruennsheng 09:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Another piece of history unkown to the English word brought to you by Wiki - good job, guys! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 23:26, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Flag of Belarus

Self-renom Not much changes took place since the last FAC [4], since I corrected everything there. And I added some SVG images, though I kept some other images since I either cannot draw Coat of arms and also cannot use cyrillic in Inkscape. I also wish to point out that one of my sources was put on the meta spam list, so if you wish to see the website, check my invisible notes at the references section. Zach (Sound Off) 21:20, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

• I'm going to support this nom. Comprehensive without being over-long. Interesting background without being tangential. Random look at other flag pages shows it be a cut above. Marskell 16:01, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:16, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. FAs should serve as model articles, and this one does so for flags. Jkelly 05:06, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. w00t, Belarusian cabal. Redwolf24 (talk) 06:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Katamari Damacy

Self-nomination. It looks better than a lot of the featured articles. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Object. Three out of six sections are only one section paragraph (sorry for the confusion) -- this is indicative of either poor sectioning, lack of comprehensive coverage, or both. Also, let me suggest that in the future you not try to elevate your nominations by putting down articles which have actually passed FAC votes. - Bantman 04:37, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I merged settings into gameplay, and description into the lead. How now? - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:25, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Sectioning is still a little funny... the gameplay section seems like it would break naturally into subsections, which should be done. Also, there are some grammar issues, mainly with singular/plural agreement ("the player" is he or she, not they). A few more screenshots would be nice; it is easy to go overboard, but I think that this is such a strange game concept that a couple more well selected ones could be informative. Questions I'd like to see answered: Is the game easy or hard? Is it targeted toward kids or adults? How long is the gameplay? Aside from saying it was well-received by professional reviewers, could we get an idea of what they liked about it? Maybe a couple of illustrative quotes from influential reviewers? Also, a question rather than a suggestion - would it make sense to merge this article and We Love Katamari? The content seems similar enough that it might make sense to do so (I vaguely recall other video game series being covered in one comprehensive article). Also, while I commend the authors for the excellent price and sales data (all articles on commercial products should have this information), it begs the question of whether the product made a profit for Namco (one would certainly assume so seeing as it made a sequel). The numbers also suggest production and sales have stopped; is this true? Looking at the definition of meme, the phrasing of "The 'cult/underground hit' status of Katamari Damacy has made it become a popular internet meme on websites such as YTMND and 4chan" seems incorrect and misleading. Would it be possible to get a short, characteristic sound clip from the soundtrack (not sure of the copyright issues on this)? - Bantman 19:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I tried to address most of your objections, with the following exceptions: I couldn't add any new screenshots (anyone?), I don't agree that We Love Katamari should be merged with this article, and I think that adding a short clip of the soundtrack would be stretching the idea of fair use. In any case, the gameplay video linked at the bottom gives an impression of the soundtrack as well. -- grm_wnr Esc 21:31, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Good job... relatively small changes, but they make the article much stronger. If it is the consensus opinion to not merge with We Love Katamari, which is fine by me (I just wanted to make sure it was considered), then the sequels section should probably briefly discuss the actual content of the existing sequel, rather than just mentioning it exists. Does anyone else know about the sound clip copyright issue? I thought I saw it done somewhere else on WP, but I could be wrong. - Bantman 22:04, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I've added a bit on We Love Katamari, and I've found Wikipedia:Fair_use#Audio_clips: "Brief song clips may be used for identification of a musical style, group, or iconic piece of music when accompanied by critical or historical commentary and when attributed to the copyright holder.". I don't think that applies here. -- grm_wnr Esc 00:28, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

That seems definitive enough on the sound clip issue. Just waiting on a couple more (well selected) screenshots then, before changing to a support vote. - Bantman 01:38, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

On re-reading it, the lead section mentions that a number of Japanese cultural references exist, unexplained. Perhaps we should give examples, and explain them? - Bantman 20:48, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

As I've said below, I've taken that out because it's hard to explain what is the special Japanese weirdness about it, and the general weirdness is a lot more important. And there are twice as many images on the article now - what do you say? -- grm_wnr Esc 22:47, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

The problem with taking out something that is hard to explain is that it proves the point of anyone claiming lack of comprehensive coverage. Nonetheless, I am withdrawing my object vote because I have reached my limit of tolerance in dealing with some of the less polite participants in this discussion, and do not wish to burden myself further with the task of interacting with them. For the same reason, my further participation in the improvement of the article is curtailed, and therefore I cannot cast a support vote either. - Bantman 23:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I take offense to the idea that I am putting articles down because I think this one is better than a lot of them. If I can't say it is better than a lot of them, then that would spread to objections; it's basically saying that people can't think an FA is bad. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

One, it is unneccessary and potentially inflammatory. Two, you represented your statement as fact, not as your opinion. Three, it flies in the face of humility; humility is required to accept others' suggestions and improve the article in the spirit of Wikipedia. Four, articles are judged on their own merit, not on whether they are "better" than others. Five, it invites the counter-argument "such and such article is worse than this other one that failed FAC," which would be an unproductive and hurtful conversation. So, I suggest again, don't do that in the future. - Bantman 19:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, Bantman... --Phroziac ^(talk) 04:50, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Extreme lesbian support! --Phroziac ^(talk) 04:50, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Aren't you supposed to identify yourself as a member of WP:FAD when voting for each other's nominations? - Bantman 19:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Only when the article is involved with WP:FAD. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:13, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

This article has not been involved in any part of the FAD process thus far. This is therefore to be considered Link's individual nomination. Rob Church ^{Talk | Desk} 00:52, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Regardless of whether the article has been worked on or not, if FAD participants are going to participate in bloc voting for each other's articles, it should be made known. - Bantman 01:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

No it shouldn't. It has NOTHING to do with the FAD whatsoever. I mean, literally, 0% of this FAC has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the FAD. Why should we have to point our statuses out? I don't see every CVG participant pointing out that they are a part of the CVG WikiProject everytime two or more people vote on the same video game FAC, do you? This kind of attitude towards FAD members is counter-productive; at no time has there ever been cabal in articles (in fact, FAD members have often objected to FAD-sponsored articles). This has nothing to do with FAD, so no mention of FAD should be here. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:23, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

You're right; this is a larger issue and probably shouldn't be discussed here. I will bring it up on the talk page. - Bantman 01:38, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I was actually pointing out that you are telling Phro he needs to point out that he's in FAD when voting on any FAC. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm a FAD member. --Phroziac ^(talk) 02:44, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support I have played the game and I currently own it, and I see that this article has many things that can give a non-gamer a chance to understand what the game is about, and no, I am not a FAD member. Zach (Sound Off) 22:08, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Very good article. Meelar (talk) 04:15, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object. This is a good article, and not far off from being a FA, but it still has some problems. I have never played this game, or heard of it before, and after reading the intro I still had no idea what the game is about. A proper lead should give brief summary of the topic, the current one focuses on trivia and meta commentary on its place in the video game pantheon. Some assertions also need more explanation. The articles states that it is "a radical departure from traditional video game concepts; ... it also does not fall into the familiar mold of a "puzzle game" like Tetris," but never explains how it is not a puzzle game. Also why only one screenshot? There are many other aspects of the game that could be illustrated. - SimonP 04:28, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • My objections have largely been dealt with. As mentioned I know nothing about the topic, so I don't feel I can vouch for its accuracy or completeness, but the article does now certainly meet the FA criteria for formatting and quality. - SimonP 16:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object. I agree with SimonP. For such a unique game, more of how it actually works should be discussed. Andre (talk) 19:21, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • • • OK, I'll support. Andre (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I believe, as of now, it adequately describes the game in the lead, after Zscout added some lines on it. I also added two images. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:28, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
    • I've tweaked the lead a bit more, elaborated a bit, and took out the "japanese cultural references" entirely since they're really hard to explain and not all that important. If somebody can make that a bit clearer, feel free to readd it. -- grm_wnr Esc 22:32, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Reads like a fine article. As for ""the player" is he or she, not they", Shakepeare, among others, used "they" as a third person singular pronoun of indeterminate gender so I think Wikipedia should be allowed to as well. — Phil Welch 23:38, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

A lot of Shakespeare's English usage and grammar (not to mention spelling) would be considered strange, arcane, or just plain wrong in the context of modern writing. While great, Shakespeare is not the modern archetype of perfect writing in the English language, and should not be invoked as such. - Bantman 23:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

While true, Shakespeare's usage belies the implicit argument that the use of "they" in this fashion is a contemporary permutation of the language. "They" is a perfectly acceptable word for a third person pronoun of indeterminate gender, by both the standards of contemporary usage and the fact that it's been established usage for centuries. While other Shakesperian constructions did not survive into contemporary usage (and thus cannot be seen as correct in that context), those constructions that have survived into modern usage are undoubtedly still legitimate. — Phil Welch 18:48, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support. I read the featured article candidates section often, and I had to admit, when I saw this up for nomination I didn't think it was ready. I was major contributer to this article, but when I left it to pursue other things (i.e, the start of the new school year), I didn't think it was ready. I hadn't anticipated the major changes since having last edited the article, but now, having read the article again, I must support. RyanGerbil10 04:18, 16 September 2005 (UTC) (comment moved here from the main FAC page by  grm_wnr Esc 15:33, 17 September 2005 (UTC))
• Support Nick Catalano (Talk) 06:19, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
• Object reluctantly. I love this game, but the article needs more work.
  1. The grammar in the introduction is quite awkward:
     1. Break the first sentence up. It's too long.
     2. the Prince (of All Cosmos) -- the parantheses are unnecessary.
     3. the stars, constellations and the Moon. Inconsistent use of the definite article.
  2. Additional copyediting is required throughout:
     1. …follows the Hoshino family: The mother… -- incorrect capitalization.
  3. Some information is incomplete. The game was also released in Canada. It is explicitly stated that it wasn't released in Australia or Europe. What about the rest of the world (i.e. Africa, South America, most of Asia)?
  4. The article would benefit from a pronounciation key. Better yet, add a sound clip of the correct pronounciation.

Pburka 02:43, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Fixed everything except for the pronunciation key and the rest of the world. North America, Japan and Europe are the main gaming areas. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• Some more comments:
  1. Is the game quite reminiscent of the early days of computer gaming, or a radical departure from traditional video game concepts?
  2. Other Constellation levels have a more specific goal. -- Constellation shouldn't be capitalized. Goal should be pluralized.
  3. The player's goal in the level is to get the katamari to exactly 10 meters -- this doesn't sound quite formal enough. Perhaps "The player's goal for the level is to build a katamari of exactly 10 meters"?
  4. In the Eternal levels, there is no goal, and no time. The player is free to roam around the level getting as big as possible, until they decide to quit. -- no time? Eternal shouldn't be capitalized. I also dislike seeing "they" used with for a singular subject (the player) (but others disagree)
  5. Most retailers underestimated the demand for such a quirky game, and only purchased a few copies; it rapidly sold out nationwide, its sales passing the 120,000 units mark in North America. -- it's not clear what nation is referred to in this sentence.
  6. In We Love Katamari, the King can be picked up, if your Katamari is at least 3223m in diameter. -- elsewhere the sequel is called We ♥ Katamari. Does this info belong in this article at all?
  7. Katamari Damacy is an unusual game, and it was originally presumed that it would have limited appeal and this would prevent a release outside of Japan -- run on sentence.
  8. featured sidebar in the May 23rd edition of Time magazine. Time continued to praise the game in its November 22 -- what year? The last year referenced in the paragraph was 2005, but it's not November yet, so this must refer to 2004.
  9. The black bars around some of the screen caps should be cropped out.

Pburka 03:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support this game was considered a suprisely innovator in industry for years. --Mateusc 02:39, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Spoo

I wrote this page at first in April, and it was leaps and bounds above its previous versions, thrice deleted and copyvio. Since then I have made many, many small edits to the page, beefing up the prose, adding references galore, and taking it through Peer Review. As it is an article on a fictional foodstuff, the images are limited to fair use; however, I have provided detailed explinations of each image's qualifications and their relevance to the article at hand. I would not bother nominating this if it did not meet the criteria - it is accurate and very comprehensive, with nearly all references accessible online for easy further reading and verification, plus plenty of wikilinks; it is extremely stable and decidedly uncontroversial. It is shorter than many FA's, but it is longer than others - even sans the reference section it is still longer than the recently Main Page'd AEJ Collins. And, yeah, its a bit crufty, but that should not be a roadblock if one looks at other FA's such as Wario. Even if you don't vote, I hope you, kind reader, enjoy the read.

• Self-nomination, and, (of course) Support. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 03:33, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

• Support. Definitely comprehensive and stable. Provides an interesting and funny read. --maclean25 04:53, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Scott's concerns:

• Oppose. Big style errors - see Wikipedia:MoS. For instance, there are some sentences written in second person. Scott Ritchie 06:54, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

In regards the second person sentence, are you referring to "Starting a spoo ranch is relatively easy: one needs only to place two hundred spoo in the middle of the ranch and wait." ? If so, I have changed it thusly: "Starting a spoo ranch is relatively easy: the only requirement is to place two hundred spoo in the middle of the ranch and wait." Are there others?

As far as "Big style errors"... I would appreciate specific examples so that any error can be rectified. As it stands now, the article is consistent with the MoS: italicization of book titles, words as words, and the television series; quotations for episode names, etc. The only possible faux pas may be my JMS quote in the etymology section. The quote italicization may have been brought up in peer review, but the user refused/failed to/forgot to clarify her comments so that I could fix it. To be safe, I've changed it. Let me know of any specific errors so that I may fix it accordingly. Thanks for your time! --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:43, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm referring to constructions like this: "Spoo, as we now know, it first appeared in the first episode of the science fiction television series Babylon 5, when it was briefly mentioned by the Narn Ambassador, G'Kar[1]" - that sentence is screwy in several ways and for some reason makes me feel like it resembles the annoying wrong answers on standardized tests. Avoid use of "we", for instance, and make sure you have subject-verb agreement. Also, move footnotes to the end of the sentece, as they get quite jarring in the middle breaking up commas and such.